October 13, 2000
JOHN GIBSON, GUEST HOST: Hi, everybody. I'm John Gibson filling in for Bill O'Reilly, who's on assignment. Thanks for watching us tonight.
We've got a packed program for you. The political Hollywood film "The Contender" is released today and the producer and one of the stars say the studio chiefs reedited it to present a pro-Gore agenda. Much ado about now much or Hollywood liberals at it again?
Plus, the presidential race is in a statistical dead heat, but the violence in the Middle East could affect who wins in November. We'll find out how the stakes have changed. And the crisis in the Mideast is our top story tonight. Here are the latest developments.
One Palestinian is dead and 12 injured in clashes today in Hebron. Ninety-eight people have been killed in 16 days of violence. President Clinton is calling for calm while many say the peace process is dead. What will it take to resolve this and have the Palestinians been treated unfairly?
Joining me now from Washington, D.C. is the former media director for the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, Sam Husseini.
Sam, what is the case for the notion that Palestinians have been treated unfairly?
SAM HUSSEINI, INSTITUTE FOR PUBLIC ACCURACY: Well, going back to the beginning of the Oslo Accords, if you take a look at it, as the group that I'm currently with, the Institute for Public Accuracy, has been doing, you find that the Oslo Accords were tremendously unfair to the Palestinians and the agreements that they have gone through since then, since the big handshake, the big photo-ops and so on.
They hide the fact that Israel continues to perpetuate its occupation over the Palestinians.
GIBSON: But Sam…
HUSSEINI: All the Israelis have done is withdrawn from some population areas.
GIBSON: Sam, I'm confused. Didn't the Palestinians agree to the Oslo Accords? So who was unfair to who?
HUSSEINI: Well, it was either agree or get nothing. Basically the Palestinians were put a gun to their head saying agree to this piece of paper or you get nothing or you get bombed or you, you know, just stay out of the picture or you get absolutely nothing at all because Israel's got all the weapons.
There's a tremendous disparity -- Israel's got one of the biggest, most powerful militaries in the world. They've got 200 nuclear weapons. And what they are at war, some people are saying against, is a civilian population…
GIBSON: But Sam…
HUSSEINI: … that's unarmed, that all they've got is rocks.
GIBSON: But Sam…
HUSSEINI: So it's an incredibly…
GIBSON: Israel is not going to bomb Gaza with nuclear weapons. That wouldn't…
HUSSEINI: No, but they can bomb other people in the region.
GIBSON: Well, sure, but -- all right, Sam, look…
HUSSEINI: They can determine their dominance of the region.
GIBSON: … how do you expect the American people at large to develop some empathy for the Palestinians when we see in the last couple of days mobs killing a couple of guys…
HUSSEINI: Well, you know, John…
GIBSON: … guys waving their bloody hands out a window in triumph?
HUSSEINI: Right, exactly. Exactly.
GIBSON: How does that build any empathy?
HUSSEINI: Yeah, what doesn't build empathy and I hear the music and I guess they'll show the clips that are getting played, I want to see the clips that haven't gotten played. There have been almost 100 Palestinian civilians, not soldiers -- I'm sorry about those soldiers, those Israeli soldiers getting killed. But what were they doing there? They're occupying soldiers.
GIBSON: They were…
HUSSEINI: They're occupying…
GIBSON: They were there by mistake.
HUSSEINI: They weren't in uniform, John.
GIBSON: They ran to the Palestinian police station for protection.
HUSSEINI: They weren't in uniform, John. You know, they're undercover units, OK? It's not a secret.
GIBSON: Well, Sam, I know that's in dispute. But I mean one picture…
HUSSEINI: So, let's see the pictures…
GIBSON: At least one picture today…
HUSSEINI: Let's see the pictures that we're not seeing…
GIBSON: … showed the guy in uniform being…
HUSSEINI: … of our -- John.
GIBSON: … shoved to the ground.
HUSSEINI: John, the other pictures of our, of American made helicopter gunships hitting civilian targets, of Palestinian children being shot. Neither one of the presidential candidates had the guts to say I condemn Israel's killing almost 100 Palestinian civilians.
GIBSON: But Sam, look…
HUSSEINI: And at a snap they condemn a mob, an unfortunate mob, a bad mob killing these Israeli soldiers.
GIBSON: Well, Sam, but what do you expect?
HUSSEINI: But let's get real. These are civilians.
GIBSON: I mean there are pictures of…
HUSSEINI: Why was there silence? Why was there silence, John, for two weeks…
GIBSON: Well, Sam…
HUSSEINI: … as these innocent children were getting killed?
GIBSON: … how can somebody speak up on behalf of the Palestinians…
HUSSEINI: Where were those pictures?
GIBSON: … when a guy is waving his bloody hands around bragging?
HUSSEINI: Yeah, and you're going to keep playing that picture again. What about the blood from the innocent civilians, children? I mean come on. Where's the symmetry here?
GIBSON: Well, we did show the picture…
HUSSEINI: Let's get real.
GIBSON: … of that 12-year-old boy being shot to death.
HUSSEINI: One. One. There are 100 like him, John. Where are the others? Where are the funerals? What are their names? See, we're not going to hear those names and that's why you don't hear a humanized picture of the Palestinians. And what's happened to them over the last several years while we've been talking about this alleged peace process, Israel has put more illegal settlements in the West Bank, Israel has demolished 1,000 Palestinian homes. You can't get from one Palestinian town to another without going a humiliating, through a humiliating Israeli checkpoint.
GIBSON: Well, Sam…
HUSSEINI: You know, the U.N. Security Council…
GIBSON: … there was a peace process…
HUSSEINI: … told Israel…
GIBSON: … underway which may have been flawed, but it was something.
HUSSEINI: But it wasn't doing justice.
GIBSON: It appears now that is completely dead. I mean how are Palestinians…
HUSSEINI: It wasn't, it's dead…
GIBSON: … better off in this situation?
HUSSEINI: If it's dead it's because what Palestinians are saying, and maybe it's not the wise thing to do but what they're saying is give me freedom or give me death. Give me liberty or give me death. I'm not going to live in my home that's been taken from me and I've been made a refugee and I'm not going to live in perpetual subjugation and servitude.
GIBSON: But Sam, look…
HUSSEINI: That's what they're saying.
GIBSON: But here's…
HUSSEINI: And it might not be wise, because Israel's got all the weapons.
GIBSON: But Sam, you know as well as I do…
HUSSEINI: But that's what they're saying.
GIBSON: … because you live in this country and you understand how the media works and you understand how public opinion works.
HUSSEINI: Yeah, and I wish it would be a bit fairer, John.
GIBSON: In the last few years, you've actually seen the American public change its mind somewhat, at least, about Yasir Arafat and Palestinians. Whatever ground was made in the last few years has been wiped out in the last few days.
HUSSEINI: Well, I should hope not.
GIBSON: How is that a wise thing?
HUSSEINI: I should hope that it, that things haven't been wiped out. I should hope that people who have come to an understanding of Arabic culture, of Islam, gotten rid of some stereotypes and gotten to see that the Palestinians are being occupied, they're not screaming for the demolishment of Israel. Israel is refusing the establishment of a Palestinian state. Israel was refusing to share Jerusalem. Israel is refusing to let the refugees who are in squalid refugee camps in Lebanon, come back to their rightful homes.
Israel is refusing to abide by U.N. Security Council resolutions like one just passed last week, 1322. They won't abide by it. They're in violation of dozens of international Security Council resolutions, of international law, of Geneva Conventions. They are bullying and damaging a people under occupation and they're not doing justice and that's the root of the problem.
GIBSON: Sam Husseini, it's always a pleasure to have you on. You speak well for the people and I appreciate you joining us tonight.
HUSSEINI: Just trying to get the facts out, John.